This summer, I’m beginning to write my book about godspousery. In preparation for that, I’m sending a questionnaire to every spouse / consort I know to try to get a sense of the range of their experiences and philosophies.
And here’s where I need your help, gentle readers.
What questions would you ask a godspouse? What would you want to know?
To answer the most basic question, I would define “godspouse” as someone who has a longterm/lifetime intimate relationship with a deity that seems to somehow mirror human marriage (although there can be striking and important differences). This is usually a role officially acknowledged by the deity and confirmed by other members of your community in various ways.
So, I’m asking that you please submit questions, either by replying here or via email. No question is too small or large or silly (as long as it’s respectful). This will also help me anticipate information that should be covered in the book.
Thank you!
I would wonder how it was that the individual knew that this level of relationship was what the God really wanted. I imagine it would be very surreal to have a God make such a proposal.
By: Angela on June 22, 2011
at 3:00 pm
I guess, what do you consider the relationships/ similarity/ differences between neo-pagan god spouse and the christian “brides of Christ”
By: cheshbitten on June 23, 2011
at 12:36 am
Can you have a human/mortal spouse as well as a godspouse?
By: Libelula on July 5, 2011
at 9:15 pm
Thank you so very much for your willingness to speak openly on this topic! I do appreciate it. Here are my questions.
What, in your oppinion, is the difference between a god-spouse relationship and a patron relationship?
What activities/hobbies do you do together when you visit eacn other in the various otherworlds?
Was a proposal by the deity even necessary? I wonder if customs in the otherworlds are different than earthly ones. How did you celebrate your wedding, and what do you do for anniversaries and such.
Why do you think a high number of god-spouses seem to be bestowed by Greek/Norse deities, and not by Celtic ones? Why isn’t the concept more talked about in Celtic circles? Is it because perhaps Celtic deities are creeped out by such things? Or other reasons entirely?
Thank you for answering my questions!
By: Brynhild Tudor on July 6, 2011
at 6:30 am
Beautiful “Sawdust and Diamonds” article, by the way.
By: Brynhild Tudor on July 6, 2011
at 9:53 am
Thank you! And those are great questions. I am definitely curious about the distribution of spouses across pantheons as well. I don’t know of any Celtic spouses but would love to hear from them.
By: anyakless on July 6, 2011
at 10:04 am
I personally would be interested to hear about the godspouse’s relationship from the god’s point of view. What does marriage do for the god? What benefits does the deity gain from it, and what work must the god do to keep the relationship running smoothly? Whatever’s written on the topic is strictly from the human’s point of view (the human is the deity’s ambassador, the work the human does to keep the relationship going, the benefits the human gets out of marriage). And since marriage is a 2-way street (or sometimes more, depending on how many people you’re married to), I would like the book to address this from the deity’s perspective.
By: Brynhild Tudor on July 6, 2011
at 10:14 am
I will definitely speak to this, as much as possible. This seems to really vary by person. My value to Odin is different than the value of another spouse. Part of that has to do with the work I do with the human community, part of that has to do with the fact that He comes to me in the face of His youth. It seems to give Him a much needed sense if balance that that face of Him is also being engaged and honored and nourished (in addition to His old wanderer face or His warrior). He once told me that in their spouses, gods see pieces of themselves reflected back at them. For some reason they need us as mirrors.
By: anyakless on July 6, 2011
at 10:44 am
I can also say that gods do seem to have to put work into these relationships, both to obtain a spouse and to keep that relationship healthy. I’ll delve into this as much as I can.
By: anyakless on July 6, 2011
at 12:22 pm
My entities are Welsh/Irish, so I have particular interest in the topic as it relates to Celtic cosmology and deities. Beautiful “Sawdust and Diamonds” article, by the way, one that I think is applicable to godspouses across traditions in terms of what the role might entail.
By: Brynhild Tudor on July 6, 2011
at 10:24 am
One more question, and then I will go, I promise!
I notice an inordinately high number of godspouses are also spiritworkers. Why is this so, do you think? Why aren’t there any godspouses who are *not* spiritworkers, and just regular mundane people like myself?
Let me try to clarify. With human spouses, perhaps the wife is, say, an archetect and the husband is, oh I don’t know, an office manager. They work their jobs, and come home to each other, ask each other how their day was.
But with your community, the god-spousal relationship is so tied to spirit work, so inextricably linked to working *for* the god or being his/her ambassador, so intertwined with spirit work, that I wonder why this is. Is this a common, universal theme across all cultural pantheons, or is this something only found in NT shamanism?
In human relationships, if the wife is an elementary-school teacher, she might say, “I have a husband” but she generally isn’t his cheering section, or his ambassador, or stands for the work he does if he’s, say, a lawyer. They just live their own lives in their own fields, and see each other before and after their jobs, know what I mean? Do stuff together on their free time.
But it seems that the majority of god-spousal relationships are akin to married lawyers working together in the same law firm. So the coworker and spousal relationships might be separated somewhat, but they’re still working business partners. Is this what a god-spousal relationship is supposed to be, or is this an unusually common occurence that’s just cooincidence for the people who happen to be in human-deity relationships?
Okay, end of questions, really! Just so you know who I am, I’m just a plain, ordinary girl, living a secular life, with no interest in religion or spirituality so consequently I have neither, yet am absolutely fascinated by the concept of godspouses. I have a Welsh pantheon that I am very close to, and do nothing other than talk to them, out loud, about my life every day. Ask them for advice on how I can solve my own problems, teoo them about my day, ask them about theirs (but never get an answer. Maybe they aren’t listening or think I am hopelessly boring?) If I do anything at all, it is just going out and living my life, playing flute and piano to the best of my ability (I’m a classical musician) for a hobby, teaching my voice students, doing gymnastics and indoor cycling to the best of my ability. Nothing spiritual at all: no ritual, meditation, offerings, sacrifices, or anything else that would constitute a “spiritual” practice. I don’t even play or sing for my entities, or dedicate songs, poems or stories to them. For some reason, if feels weird to me, as if they aren’t interested in my worship (not that I’d worship anyone), and seem to be happy with me living my life out there in the real world. And it is enough.
And don’t ask me how I got the name of a valkyrie, specially when I don’t connect with the Norse deities or cosmology at all! So I have a Nordic name and a Celtic pantheon. Go figure. I did research the Norse gods and read the myths, but really, that Brynhild in the Volsung saga… what a depressing story! I didn’t click with it at all. So I’m a Welsh/Irish girl. At least part of my name means “hill” in Welsh. Whatever that means.
LastLastly, I think it is fascinating that the gods have to work to find and maintain human relationships, and would be interested to hear about what exactly they *do*. They are talked about so little, their work is either easy and effortless, while humans have to work hard and put effort into their relationships (which is totally not fair), or else the gods really do work as much and as wholeheartedly as humans, but just don’t say what is involved for them, and keep it a secret. But as relationships are 2-way streets, I am keenly interested in hearing about both sides of the coin.
Going… going… gone!
Your inquisitive little friend,
Brynhild
but you can call me Bryn!
By: Brynhild Tudor on July 6, 2011
at 7:08 pm
Hi Bryn!
I actually do know at least one godspouse / consort who isn’t a spirit worker. But I can’t really say more about that person here without violating their privacy. Although, I can say that their spouse is not from the Norse pantheon.
There are a few different answers I can think of to your question as to why there seems to be such an overlap between godpouses and spirit workers.
1. The gods are opportunists. They will use whatever resource they have – there simply aren’t enough people doing their work for the spouses to not get “tapped” as well.
2. Because spouses communicate with gods so much and in such an intimate way, spouses tend to have knowledge of the inner workings of the god. This makes them very well suited to do the gods’ work. We’re kind of ideal employees, even if that might complicate the relationship.
3. Spirit workers do all the things you say you don’t do – ritual, meditation, offerings. They learn how to hear the gods and they work on creating that two-way line of communication. Thus, if a god is talking to them, they’re more likely to hear it. I couldn’t hear anyone (my gods or my ancestors) until I taught myself how to meditate. Without being able to go into a meditative state, I couldn’t clear out enough of the static to “get good reception.”
4. Being a godspouse is a recognized and legitimate role in my community. This is the case almost nowhere else. I found out I was a godspouse by having three different NT shamans confirm it to me. If you don’t have those resources, it’s hard to know what’s going on. It’s very probable that people that aren’t in “spirit worker heavy” communities are also spouses – and there’s just no word or explanation for it. That’s one of the reasons I want to write the book – to make a wider audience aware that this role is a possibility.
Hope this helps. Your questions have been very thought-provoking for me as well.
Best,
Anya
By: anyakless on July 6, 2011
at 8:30 pm
“Why aren’t there any godspouses who are *not* spiritworkers, and just regular mundane people like myself?”
_____
I find two parts to consider here. First, define ‘spiritworker’. Generally it seems to mean, literally, ‘someone who works with one or more spirits’. Less generally, I’ve heard it refer to ‘someone who can hear/see/actively interact with spirits’, regardless of how defined/active their interaction may be. Yes, most Godspouses are spiritworkers within the first definition… As Anya said, it simply works well to utilise such useful tools in as many roles as possible. However, not all Godspouses are active spiritworkers – me included.
This brings me to the second point – that some degree of spirit-awareness seems necessary; a Deity marrying a completely “mundane”, spirit-blind person could be akin to a human marrying someone in a coma; legal on paper, but not really much of a marriage. Given the effort involved on the Deity’s part, I’m not sure if/why they would do that. Someone completely mundane, with little-to-no degree of spirit-awareness, is unlikely to achieve a deep understanding of their chosen Deity, and without understanding Them, how can they provide for Them? At best they might be somewhat agnostic about it all (which provides very little for the Deity in question), and at worse it’s an exercise in futility or self-indulgence (either ‘screaming into the void’ with a desperate plea for some kind of reply, or ‘Disney-ride’ play-acting).
It’s like Loki said to me once, during one of my early ‘DoubtBouts’ – if you don’t truly believe, why are you going through with the marriage in the first place? And people very rarely believe deeply in things they can’t hear/see/sense and/or feel…
For the record, I am married to Loki, but Sigyn is my fulltrui. I wonder sometimes if my devotion to my Lady is the reason my relationship with Loki is (or has so far been) purely one of domesticity, absent any expectation of public work or shamanism, etc. (Of course, I’m not saying that won’t change in the future; merely that it’s what I’ve been directed to so far.)
As far as I can understand it right now, for me being “the wife” *is* “the work”. Sometimes I fail, sometimes I don’t, sometimes I can’t tell the difference… I just keep trying to work at it, and He is surprisingly patient.
(I hope that all made sense; I should have been in bed an hour ago!)
By: Lusi on August 11, 2011
at 6:11 am
What are the traits that godspouses have in common with each other? Would the deity ever require that someone other than the mortal’s mundane spouse ‘horse’ the deity for sexual purposes?
What ‘at home’ or personal kinds of things would a godspouse have knowledge of about the deity? How does one interact with the deity, and are any powers conferred on the spouse by the marriage?
Does the deity ever confer firsthand knowledge of past events or future? Does the deity shower and brush their teeth or do they rub their teeth with a licorice root? (How much does the deity identify with modern life and does the deity prefer or reject modern life as opposed to life at the deity’s climax of worship?)
By: Candi on July 6, 2011
at 9:28 pm
These are great – thank you!!!
By: anyakless on July 6, 2011
at 10:47 pm
I don’t suppose “why me?” will be covered in the book?
By: lokisbruid on July 6, 2011
at 11:09 pm
Ha! Because you’re just so lovable?
By: anyakless on July 6, 2011
at 11:40 pm
[...] for Odin. I spent the daylight hours today devising an outline for my godspouse book project and replying to questions about godspousery (keep them coming!). After a few hours at my Hapkido dojang (training He encourages) I fed myself, [...]
By: Devotional Prayer Beads for Odin « The Fruit of Pain on July 6, 2011
at 11:26 pm
Ok, so the comment about a god spouse who isn’t a spirit worker is interesting. I hadn’t even considered that could be a possibility. I guess I assumed you needed those skills before They took notice of you. My only question is more of a request or suggestion- in the book could you put a ‘so you think this might apply to you and you’ve got no community to help you figure it out/do the necessary divination/help you discern if you’re really getting the message you think you are. Here is what you need to learn and this is where you can look to do so.’ Kind of an ‘in case of Deity proposing, don’t panic, break glass and absorb all this knowledge’ type of thing, to put it somewhat flippantly.
By: violetdoodles on July 7, 2011
at 2:13 am
That’s a great suggestion. Thank you!
By: anyakless on July 7, 2011
at 9:55 am
Thought of more questions as I was showering.
Are there any same-sex godspouse relationships, just as there are GLBT relationships in human society? The majority seem to be heterosexual. Is this a societal constraint or a deity-imposed one?
In human society, many relationships between persons of authority and their charges (teacher/student, parent/child, therapist/patient) are frowned upon if there is a physical/sexual component involved. Personally, I see nothing wrong with such relationships, provided they are consentual, but then again, I’m thought of as a strange bird…
Perhaps the otherworlds do not have taboos on such things?
Human society must deal with lawsuits, liability, character assassination, and other potential nasty occurences that otherworlds do not have to think about.
By: Brynhild Tudor on July 7, 2011
at 7:15 pm
Well, I can answer this from my own experience. Every spiritual relationship I’ve been in has been same-sex. Including my partnership with Freyr. We (and I’ve asked him) both consider ourselves to be the equivalent of a “married couple,” but it goes deeper than that.. there’s more brotherhood involved. It’s actually difficult to explain it, but I thought I’d give my two cents.
By: Celestial on December 17, 2011
at 8:26 am
Oh, and neither of us care if we’re involved with others at the same time. I’ve got several loving, equal relationships, and every one involved knows about each other. If I do ever meet this so-called “wife” people claim he has, I’ll gladly become best friends with her. Or just move on… but from my experience, people just aren’t the judgmental, jealous type in that world.
By: Celestial on December 17, 2011
at 8:29 am
Brynhild:
Although I am not “married” to any Gods or spirits, I have had sex with several of them, from all over the gender spectrum. I know of a few people who have very close personal and sexual relationships with Deities of the same gender, although I guess I haven’t heard them call it a “marriage” or “spouse”.
By: dying for a diagnosis on October 20, 2011
at 5:03 pm
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at 3:50 pm